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2018.01.26 20:10 alanbessa Summary of ex-mibr Corassa's interview with Gaules
2014.07.31 23:09 AlotOfReading They had patches of dirt ... not real "cities"
"These mounds—not unlike European cathedrals in spiritual or architectural significance" Spiritual significance I can understand. But how exactly are earth mounds as architecturally significant as the Cathedrals they were building in Europe around the same time period?There are two issues with this statement. Perhaps most notably, not all Indians1 constructed primarily with earthworks. Let's use one of the examples from the linked article: the Chaco Canyon society. Beginning in the 9th century A.D., Chacoan society began to develop. By the end of the 11th century, a massive network of roads covering thousands of miles connected an area larger than Portugal.a One ritual center for this society is contained in what is now called Chaco Canyon. For those not familiar with the site, Chaco canyon is 53 square miles of harsh, dry desert. The area is bitingly cold in the winter and blisteringly hot in the summer. Water management is a constant battle and the area is nearly uninhabited as a result even today. Yet in the middle of this extreme environment, the Chacoans constructed at least 14 great houses and nearly 100 smaller residential structures. The greatest of these is called Pueblo Bonito, a massive complex of over 600 rooms constructed of stone and mortar rising to over 5 stories in its heyday. Reconstructed images can help one understand the sheer scale of this structure. Nearby, the Chetro Ketl great house contains a large raised plaza on a hill. One might be forgiven for assuming this hill was natural, but it isn't. The entire hill on which the site is constructed was deliberately created by the Chacoans simply because they felt like it.
"No one believes me when I tell them the majority were killed by diseases from the white man and they had huge cities."Unfortunately this is completely and utterly wrong. Let's start with the juicy assertion that the old world never had to deal with these diseases.
That's because it's not true. Majority were not killed by disease. Just because some dumb fuck like jared diamond says so doesn't make it true. The great majority indians ( in north america ) were killed in the 1800/1900s - hundreds of years after contact with the "white man" and the white man's disease. It's funny how the white man's disease didn't kill off the asians, african, aborigines or white men? It's funny how the white man's disease doesn't kill off the indians that we discover in the amazon. The indians were simply wiped out.
"In thirty years, about 70% of the Taínos died." Utter bullshit. Smallpox/measles/chickenpox/spanish flue/bubonic plague combined would not reduce a population by 70%. But lets say it was. So what? It would take the remaining 30% a couple of generations for the population to bounce back. What happen to that population?Sure, except for the fact that they were enslaved and later subjugated by the Spanish, their lifestyle destroyed, and their native lands colonized. Except for those very minor things, they probably could have bounced back from a depopulation so severe that it makes post-war Russia's depopulation look like child's play.3
Let me put it this way. If the early settlers had given the natives all their disease and then left, there would be hundreds of millions ( at least ) of natives in america.Hundreds of millions is on the high side of even pre-columbian population estimates for all of the Americas. Dobyn places the number at 112 million in his 1966 paper,e which is widely considered a good upper estimate on the true number.
That's my fucking point moron. There is NO EVIDENCE of the death rate of the natives. Everything is MADE UP ( PURE GUESSES ). We DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE POPULATION WAS. We DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY DIED from what. So every stat is BULLSHIT. Do you know what historians estimate the pre-columbian native population to be? Anywhere from a few million to over 100 million.This is badhistory of a different sort. In fact, we can provide approximate pre-columbian estimates for population in many regions of the Americas and we know relatively well how many were left by the time contact was strongly established. After that period, we still have access to even more accurate population accounts. While precise numbers are impossible to come by, our mortality estimates are far from "PURE GUESSES".
"These mounds, not unlike European cathedrals..." Uh, yeah. Piles of dirt are EXACTLY like buildings built to stand for hundreds of years. There glass windows and hinged doors are so similar to dirt. Duh, people.Illustration of Pueblo Grande
They had patches of dirt with lots of people and a few structures...not real "cities"Tenochtitlan had a population between 70,000 and 300,000.f Paris, the largest city in Europe at the time, had between 100,000 and 300,000 people. Mesoamerica as a whole may have been the most densely populated region in the world at the time. Cholula, the second largest city in the Aztec Empire and home to perhaps as many as 100,000 people before Cortes, is home to the world's largest pyramid, dwarfing the Egyptian pyramids that so amazed Europeans. In fact, the cities were so large a map was necessary to attach to Hernan Cortes' letters when they were published. Let's not forget Teotihuacan either. I'm not sure about anyone else, but that certainly doesn't much resemble a patch of dirt to me. While the great Mesoamerican cities may not have had the same technologies and social structures as European cities, they could rival anything in Europe in size and "city-ness".
90% of the native population was killed off by disease carried by blankets.I am not going to repeat a debunking of this tired myth that everyone seems to believe. Here's the obligatory /askhistorians post.
When we flew into Russia, in 1945, I did not see a house standing between the western borders of the country and the area around Moscow. Through this overrun region, Marshal Zhukov told me, so many numbers of women, children and old men had been killed that the Russian Government would never be able to estimate the total.a Mesa Verde Settlement History and Relocation: Climate Change, Social Networks, and Ancestral Pueblo Migration Linda S. Cordell, Carla R. Van West, Jeffrey S. Dean and Deborah A. Muenchrath Kiva, Vol. 72, No. 4 (Summer, 2007), pp. 379-405
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